Saturday, December 8, 2012

Sins of the Fathers

    When I started getting involved in the inner workings of Pine Mountain Club in the early 80's, it soon became clear that a few things were amiss. Not the administrative or political problems that plague most communities-- those are facts of life, especially in California. But Pine Mountain Club was barely in its teens, and some "cracks" were showing.
     Anyone who watches reality TV has seen, or is aware of, the "flip" programs: "Flip This House", etc. Well, Pine Mountain Club was a real estate "flip". Dart Industries and Georgia-Pacific started the trend in the '60's, buying tracts of land in or near "resort" areas, making necessary improvements, and then selling the properties at a tidy profit. Tenneco did not acquire the land that became Pine Mountain Club with the primary intention of developing it. Tenneco was an OIL company, and Kern Land Company was for sale in the 60's. Kern Land Company, which came to be as a grab for water rights in the late 1800's and early 1900's, owned a vast tract of land (more than 170,000 acres) that had once been a Spanish/Mexican land grant, and had subsequently belonged to General John C. Fremont, called Rancho San Emigdio. Tenneco primarily was after the OIL that lies beneath the grassy hills to the north of us; the water rights to the land, and the 3000+ acres nearly surrounded by national forest on the southern edge, were a bonus. Tenneco knew that the likelihood of extracting oil from this particular area (PMC) was nil, but you never know. (If you check your property documents (deed), you'll see that Tenneco reserved ALL the mineral rights after the first 100 feet to themselves, and ALL the water rights to Mil Potrero Mutual Water Company.)
     Tenneco managers left their mark on our community: Symonds was CEO; Askin and Freeman were VPs of Tenneco in the 60's/70's.
     Anyway, Tenneco, coming somewhat late to the game, decided to get into property development. Following the "flip" concept, the plan was to buy cheap (already done), invest the minimum amount to pass inspections and have "curb appeal", and then sell getting out with a tidy quick profit. Like any good flipper, they cut corners everywhere possible, and "worked around" any unforeseen obstacles. Case in point: the original plan submitted to Kern County called for underground utilities throughout the entire project. Once excavation began, it became clear that the terrain and the size and quantity of rock where the trenches for utilities would go made it extraordinarily expensive to put underground service everywhere (cutting into their profits). There's no proof that I know of, but it's been rumored that SC Edison, (then) PacBell, and Tenneco lobbied Kern County (maybe with cash), to forego the underground requirement, except in the area immediately around the Clubhouse--the original real estate sales office. (there's your curb appeal). All three companies benefited by significantly lowering their construction costs.
     Like an undertaker that gets to bury his mistakes, Tenneco cut lots of corners on drainage. Streets and lots cut across stream beds, and only the absolute minimum was done  to mitigate any possible damage in the future from water flow. Drain pipes and culverts worked fine for a few years, but when the development was turned over to PMCPOA, no plans or procedures were given to the maintenance department to keep the system working as designed, so gradually those systems clogged with silt or deteriorated. The Association inherited an expensive problem that still continues to give its managers headaches, and keeps its lawyers in billable hours.
     Those unforeseen hazards can have frightening consequences. A culvert and gutter up on the top of St. Bernard Drive backed up and partially washed out during an autumn rainstorm in 1989 or 1990. The rush of water flowed down the ravine for three-quarters of a mile or so, eventually ending up in a gully just above San Moritz Way. Tenneco had built the county-required catch basin to absorb and deflect just such a water flow, and to protect the homes on San Moritz Lane. But nobody knew that the catch basin needed to be cleaned out occasionally, and so it had become filled with silt and debris. The water overflowed the basin and started eroding the foundations of two of the homes below, wiping out most of their yards in the process. PMCPOA didn't cause the problem, Tenneco's poor design and lack of foresight did, but the Association (all of us) accepted the development from the Developer with all its flaws, so we were legally and financially responsible, and we paid-- attorneys, and engineers, and contractors.
     The electrical system in the clubhouse was barely adequate for the original small structure, and when the building was enlarged (several times), the system was just expanded, instead of being upgraded. I once got a call from the then General Manager, Mike Duffy, that the power in the Club bar area was out, and it was New Years Eve. I'm not an electrician, but he asked me to look at it anyway and see if it was something simple (is it ever??). I found one of the bar sinks had overflowed and gotten an outlet wet, causing the breaker to trip. I turned off all the breakers for that area so the water could be cleaned up. While the crew was working, I saw some of the equipment was still on. One of the crew said there was another breaker box. After some extensive checking, and getting a real electrician to come out on the holiday, he found that TWO panels were hooked to the same circuits, so turning one off didn't cut the power! You'd think after the fire a few years earlier (caused by a faulty circuit), that nearly destroyed the entire clubhouse, SOMEBODY would have hired a licensed electrician to properly install the wiring in the clubhouse. (Note: it should ALL be up to code, now. :-\ )

Friday, December 7, 2012

There's Always a First Time

      Our first experience with PMC was almost 40 years ago. We rode up to Pine Mountain from the San Fernando Valley with Mike Schmidt, who had previously told us all about it. He owned a lot that he planned to build a home on some day, and he thought we should take a look. Property in PMC was a good investment then (real estate almost ANYWHERE in California was a good investment in the early 1970's!).
     Mike had a Jeep CJ5, and it was a lot of fun (NOT!) riding on the old road from the freeway. When we got to the "Y", the turn-off onto Mil Potrero Highway was backed up with cars to about White Rock Road (it was spring, and there was a lot of snow on Mt. Pinos). Our first experience with snow bunnies (yippee!!). Mike took a "shortcut" through the trees around the roadblock and on to Mil Potrero (don't try this at home, kids).
     Pine Mountain was as beautiful as any description I had heard. The sky was blue, the air was crystal clear, and scented with something between pineapple and vanilla (one of the "up" sides of Jeffrey or "sugar" pines---they have their "down" sides, too.) And trees, LOTS of trees.
     We pulled in to Pine Mountain General Store, where we met Floyd Bolton. Floyd was an ex-LAPD who decided to trade the security of a pensioned job for the unknown future of an entrepreneur,  moving his wife Pat and young boys to a tiny no-stoplight town in what almost seemed like wilderness compared to the San Fernando Valley.
    At that time, the General Store was one of only three buildings in the Village (although it was commonly referred to as the "Commercial Center"; there were no signs). The other two structures were the Pine Mountain Real Estate office (a 3-room, one-story building where the Jennings Realty building, that was built over and around it) stands, and the Gold Coast Realty office, which consisted of the one-room front portion of what is now Montana Joey.
Chuck & Marge Tidwell next to Pine Mt. Real Estate Bldg.    

     We drove by the PMC clubhouse, about a quarter of the size it is now. There were just 4 houses on Beechwood Way, near the clubhouse, and the only near structure across Mil Potrero Highway was the KCFD fire station.
     We drove over to the Stables (it wasn't the Equestrian Center, then), turned around, and went up the hill on the street next to the corral. One of the only houses on the street, nestled in the pinons, belonged to Rick Young. It was early on a Saturday morning, but Rick was up working around the house. He invited us in, and asked if we would join him in a Bloody Mary. We did, and come to find out, Rick considered Bloody Mary mix to be a garnish! ;-).
     Thus fortified, we went to the Pine Mountain Real Estate office (above), and met the Tidwells-- Chuck and Marge. They, along with son Tommy, sold most of the property in PMC. The commission on real estate sales, homes or empty lots, was 10 percent then. Actually, the Tidwells got ten percent of most everything then. Dave Peters owned Pine Mountain Real Estate, but the Tidwells did most of the selling
     We met Fred Westlund, a local building contractor. He built many of the homes in PMC-- as many as 54 in one year! Fred never met a corny joke he wouldn't tell you. When you bought a lot from Pine Mountain Real Estate (not affiliated in any way with the current Pine Mountain Realty), the Tidwells got a 10 percent commission. They would recommend (strongly) that you have Westlund Construction build your home or cabin on that lot. They (the Tidwells)would get a ten percent commission from Westlund Construction on the construction contract. They would sometimes have to persuade Fred to cut his price to make the deal, but they still got their full commission. Thus, it happened that in one particular year Westlund Construction built over 50 homes and lost money!

Thursday, November 15, 2012

The Long & Winding Road

     CSA 40 (County Service Area 40) has been a magical thing to the public works guys of Kern County. It accumulates funds steadily (inexorably, it seems), and when a tidy sum appears, they (Public Works) get to find new and novel ways to spend it. 
     When Mil Potrero Highway was built (by Tenneco, at their expense), Kern County Roads department wanted a project MUCH different than what we got. (The process, in abbreviated terms, works like this: the developer constructs the road to a pre-determined set of standards (grade (or steepness), width, radius of curves and banking of the roadway, and drainage, etc.) Once the road is built, it is accepted by and dedicated to the County, who assumes responsibility for the maintenance of the road.
     Since Tenneco was picking up the tab, the County plan called for a wide, well-shouldered, well-drained road, with a minimum number of tight curves, and without steep grades. The County plan placed the road in roughly the same path as the original dirt trail/road into PMC from the Mt. Pinos Highway-Cuddy Valley Road turn-off, through to the west end of the development, at Cedarwood Drive. This dirt road turned northwest from where the road is today across from the gate to the now-defunct CSO camp. It followed the creekbed down into San Emigdio Canyon, crossed the creek at the bottom, and headed back up the other canyon (Cloudburst), meeting Nesthorn Way where the gate is now. This route is much more direct, with little up and down stretches. The road could have been constructed to a more acceptable standard width, and would have been on the NORTH side of the canyon, allowing the sun to reach most of the pavement in winter, which would have eliminated many of the daytime black ice problems we have today. Also, the plan called for adequate drainage, using gutters and culverts, instead of directing the water to the middle of the roadway to be drained at the bottom of each hill.
      The kicker in this whole plan was that the road had to cross the main channel of the creek at the bottom of Cloudburst Canyon where it meets the main canyon. Depending on the design, one or two bridges would have had to be built across the creek, capable of withstanding a major flood. Engineering studies estimated the cost at upwards of $500,000 dollars. This is in 70's dollars, and that was a LOT of money then; actually more than the entire road eventually cost. So..........
        Tenneco "persuaded" the County Roads department to "accept" a different alignment of the road: one that followed a former fire road on the south, mostly above the floor of the canyon, and well above the creek. The road followed the contours of the land, with few cuts or filled gullies. It was steep (steeper than county standards), and narrower, too. The route was higher, and on the shady side of the canyon. Again, Tenneco claimed the road was for summer access to Pine Mountain Club, and winter conditions were irrelevant.
     The narrowness and grade of the road led to many problems once the need for winter access became apparent. The county didn't want to plow it, and once they were "persuaded" to, they fitted their plow trucks with rubber-edged plow blades, that left a layer of snow/ice on the roadway. This method saved the pavement, but had a "Zamboni" effect on the road surface, one the snow/ice re-froze. Luckily, in those first few years, not too many people traveled the road in winter, at least not so many that they ran into each other-- if you spun out, or got stuck, it wasn't likely that someone would come along and hit you, but it did happen occasionally. The biggest hazard was sliding OFF the road: into a culvert or a gully, or a tree, or down a steep hillside. The reputation of Mil Potrero Highway became so bad that the school district refused to send buses down the road when it was icy or snowing. 
     Soon, a cry went out for guard rails. If only the county would spend some of our abundant tax dollars here in PMC, and install life-saving guard rails! "Well, YES!" replied the county, "As soon as the funds are available, all the roads in Kern County will be put into tip-top shape. We have a list, and it is prioritized by usage (and a few other things) but it doesn't matter right now, because we have no funds, and don't really foresee having them anytime soon." "But, you (the property owners in PMC) could always form a District, and tax yourselves, and Kern County will gladly help you spend  the money." 
     A number of residents complained that the county was already collecting enough taxes to provide adequate roads that would be safe in all types of weather, and the county officials agreed (citing the priority list again) and said guardrails would be installed eventually, whenever funds became available (yeah, right!). There was another way..... CSA 40. It essentially was a District, and if enough property owners signed a petition, the Service Area could be used to pay for the construction and maintenance of a guardrail system. The debate became heated at times, whether to try to make the county live up to its perceived responsibilities, or to take the shorter more expensive route, and pay for the guardrails now, and get them right away. The petition was circulated, and enough property owners signed to make the project happen. No vote was necessary: the project was funded by a "fee", not a "tax". (Sound familiar???)
     I felt at the time, and still feel, that the cost per lot (about $30 per year, for something like 11 years) was reasonable to make the road safer, and that waiting for the county to come around was futile. In addition, IF Tenneco had built the more expensive road, WITH guardrails, etc., they would have had to pass the additional cost along to the initial buyers of the development, AND it would have increased property values somewhat, so we all would have paid for it anyway. (The so-called no-free-lunch theory).
      When the idea of a county-funded project was first proposed to Kern County Roads department, the good-ole boys there had all kinds of reasons why guardrails just weren't workable on a road like Mil Potrero. "The guardrails will impinge on the roadway that's already too narrow" (Not true: the rails are behind the berm which defines the edge of the shoulder.) "Guardrails will not allow the plows to push the snow off the road" (Not true: the plows push the snow to the rails, which then force the moving snow up and over.) These and many other "excuses" went totally away when PMC agreed to pick up the tab for the County to do the work!
       A sad sidebar to this story. At least two people would most likely still be alive if guardrails had been in place on Mil Potrero when they unfortunately were involved in crashes there. Myra Irwin was the passenger in a compact pickup that skidded on gravel at the top of the "S" curves just west of Ward Drive one sunny afternoon. The truck plunged over the edge and overturned. She was ejected and fatally injured. Robin Parker lost control of her small compact car near the Whitener Tree (probably on a frosty road) and was pinned in her car at the bottom of the embankment. She died from internal injuries before reaching the hospital. Both fatalities may have been avoided if the vehicles remained on the road. In all fairness, if either of the victims had been wearing seatbelts, they may have survived even without the guardrails. Unfortunately, the programs to enforce seatbelt use had not yet been started. 
     A memorial plaque is affixed to a large rock located in the turn-out at the bottom of the "S" curves, near San Moritz Drive.

Thursday, October 25, 2012

CSA 40

     What the heck is CSA 40? If you own property in PMC, your tax bill has a line item for CSA 40. The CSA stands for county service area. 
     When Tenneco first proposed the Pine Mountain Club project to Kern County, there was some reluctance to approve such a large project. I say some reluctance, because almost 3000 lots with more than 2000 dwellings is a LOT of potential property taxes. County planners were worried that allowing all those dwellings to use septic tanks instead of off-site sewage treatment could lead to environmental concerns. After some "negotiation" (no accusations here, but Tenneco was flush with money, and county executives had acquired an affinity for it), it was decided that a "County Service Area" would be formed, to be funded by an annual fee on each lot, and the funds accrued would be used to build a sewage treatment plant within PMC when it became advantageous or necessary to do so.
     The CSA agreement also had a provision that septic tanks had to be pumped on a regular schedule, but this was not enforced for the first several years. prior to this provision, septic tanks were only pumped when they were failing. Several years ago, a Frazier Park businessman, whose main business was a restaurant and bar in Lebec, bought a couple of pumping rigs and went into the septic tank pumping business. Shortly thereafter, the county announced that septic tanks in CSA 40 would require inspection and pumping every two years, regardless of their effectiveness. Coincidence?? (Short answer: NO). 
    The "pumpage" from the septics had to be trucked to a dumpsite (pond) in the San Joaquin Valley, which added considerably to the expense. One day, while reading the Mountain Enterprise, I saw a Notice of Public Hearing before the Kern County Zoning Commission, about a proposed sewage settling pond project. The details of the hearing just gave map coordinates (latitude-longitude), but also said approximately 13 miles west of Frazier Park. I looked up the location on a USFS map, and it was approximately at the north ends of Nesthorn Way and Nadelhorn Way. I called the then GM of Pine Mountain Club, Mike Duffy, and told him to read the notice and see what he thought. Mike was also a civil engineer, so he knew right away what was up. 
       CSA 40 had been quietly collecting money for years, and now there was several hundred thousand dollars in it, just aching to be spent by Kern County public works department. The County proposed, instead of a sewage treatment plant, to build a "settling pond" where the pumping trucks would dump the raw sewage from local septic tanks, and then allow Mother Nature to work her magic in the open air. If you've ever been near a sewage plant and unfortunate to be down-wind, you know what that smells like! The project was sailing through the various levels of the County permit process, primarily because the project was fully funded (with OUR money). The last hurdle was the zoning commission. (the project required a zoning change to be in that particular location). 
     If you're familiar with the geography of PMC, the eastern boundary is roughly in the area known as San Emigdio Canyon. If you use the turn-out on Mil Potrero Hwy just west of Yellowstone Drive, and look north, the large canyon before you is San Emigdio Canyon. The canyon's southern end is actually two canyons, one leading east up to the CSO camp at the intersection of Mil Potrero and Cuddy Valley Road, and the other branches southwest, opening up at Nesthorn Way. Being familiar with this area, and having looked at the maps and charts that used to hang in the Pine Mountain Real Estate office, I knew that the site the County proposed to use for the sludge pond was actually NOT San Emigdio Canyon at all, but Cloudburst Canyon. Mike Duffy organized a delegation of PMC Board members and residents to attend the zoning commission hearing, and armed with the appropriate USFS map, convinced the commissioners that sewage probably didn't mix with Cloudburst!

You Can't Get There From Here!

     Most people driving to or from Pine Mountain Club from either direction would agree that the roads are less than optimal. Some might say primitive. Well the roads today are far superior to what existed up until the late 70's and early 80's. 
     To get an inkling of what it was like, you need only to go east to Lake of the Woods. (Yes, there used to be a lake there!). Turn right on Lockwood Valley Road at the Mini Mart. For the next mile or so, the roadway is narrow, winding, with little or no shoulder. The road follows the contour of the terrain, rather than coursing smoothly across it. The pavement is more repair than   road. Or better still, go straight east on Frazier Mtn Park Road to Lakewood Drive, and turn left. Go a few dozen feet up the hill, and take the first left. Follow this winding street west, until it dead-ends. This is a remaining portion of the original Frazier Mountain Park Road. The road from the freeway, through Frazier Park, all the way through Lake of the Woods, past Ivins Drive, was all like these two examples. Numerous curves, dips, and unbanked turns, with lots of patched (and un-patched) potholes, made the drive "adventurous", to say the least. Rain, snow, and/or fog and ice added to the fun. A one-way trip could easily take 45 minutes, or more.
     To the west, the paved portion of Mil Potrero Hwy. ended at Cedarwood Dr. The next two-plus miles was a rough, rutted, dirt road, hardly suited for passenger cars without a lot of clearance. Once you reached Cerro Noroeste (Mt. Abel) Road, the roadway was paved, but it was mostly patches between potholes.
     When Kern County began the several projects to upgrade the roads, the section through Frazier Park, including the three bridges, was completed first, and bypassed the original route through "downtown" Frazier Park. (Mount Pinos Way). This project did not disrupt travel much. The other two projects, (1) from the west end of Mount Pinos Way to Cuddy Valley Road, and (2) from the east end of Mount Pinos Way to the freeway, were done within the existing road bed, or immediately adjacent to it where the road was re-aligned. As a result, travel was delayed, or stopped, for months, and most of the time you had to drive on roughly-graded, rocky, wash-board dirt roads. Once the projects were complete, the new roads were worth the wait. However, whereas before the road conditions were such that most drivers did not feel safe driving at extra-legal speed; now the wide, smooth pavement was an invitation for too many to drive like they were still on Interstate 5. 
      The unpaved section of Mil Potrero Highway was re-aligned and widened and paved in the early 80's; The turns were straightened, and the dips filled in, and culverts were installed so the gullies didn't drain across the road. The decomposed granite fill for the road-bed came from the quarry behind the PMC maintenance yard/transfer site. (More on this later, and some notes about guard-rails.)

Monday, October 22, 2012

Chapter 2:
      This arrangement worked fairly well until the early 80's. Some people just can't leave well enough alone! Bob Marshall became Chairman of PMCPOA, and got hold of a document known as a "Public Report." In simple terms, a public report is a real estate document that provides information on a particular property, or parcel (when it is first offered for sale). The public report merely reflects the status of things at the time the report is issued, and it expires after a short time. The public report for the Commercial Center property stated (paraphrase): "Two assessments are charged to each lot (one for each Association), and the Commercial Association is responsible for snow-plowing and road maintenance." This particular public report was long-expired, but the Chairman interpreted it to mean that lot owners within parcel 526 had to pay two assessments, AND that PMCPOA did not have to provide ANY services in return. When negotiations between the two boards failed to reach a workable solution, the Commercial Association sued. (There is a whole lot more to this story, mostly involving the people who participated and their various motives, but that all will come at a later date). 
     As time went on, the attorney hired by PMCPOA to defend the lawsuit, with some input from the trial judge, informed the PMC board that their position was very weak, or at best flawed. There was a very good chance that if the case went to trial that Pine Mountain Club could be liable for all the funds collected as assessments from the commercial lot owners, plus interest, court costs, and the plaintiff's legal fees. Also, PMC could also be required to maintain the roads within the commercial area, and snowplow as needed, with only one assessment (for Lot #526) in return. The PMC Board voted to accept the offer already on the table from the Commercial association: PMCPOA would receive one assessment for the one lot in Pine Mountain Club, and the Commercial Association would contract with the Club for services as required, which were to be provided at net cost. This agreement was recorded as a "Stipulated Judgment", and sanctioned by the court. 
     That's the bare bones of the story. There's a lot more to it, but in Walter Cronkite's words: "That's the way it is."

Sunday, October 21, 2012

A Tale of Two CID's

Chapter One:  
  The first topic I have to tackle is the thing that brought this blog about. (Let's get the boring stuff out of the way.)  A discussion about the two associations during Fall Festival preparations led to a lot of stories about past happenings in PMC. which ultimately made this blog a reality.
     A lot of PMC members and/or residents don't know (or care) that there are two associations in Pine Mountain Club. Everyone who owns property in Pine Mountain Club is automatically a member of PMC-POA. But the Village Center is run by the Pine Mountain Club Commercial Property Owners Association. Why? you ask?
     Well, it's a long story. 
     As originally planned, PMC is divided into Tracts. (Legal documents for club members always refer to "Lot and tract number")  Tract 3402 had a large lot (13+ acres), number 526, which was designated on the original Precise Development Plan as a commercial lot (the only commercial lot on the original PDP.) After the PDP was recorded, the developer (Tenneco,) sub-divided 526 into 26 commercial lots, dubbed Subdivision 527, and formed a new Precise Development, and a new Commercial POA. The property owners within 527 own their lots individually, and also own the remaining area (Common Area), as tenants in common. This new common interest development (CID) has its own CC&R's, Bylaws, and Articles of Incorporation. The members each paid an assessment of $50 to the new association for insurance costs, corporate taxes, etc., and the association paid one assessment (also $50 then), to PMCPOA, for the one lot (526).
     So far, so good. 
     I told you this was a long story.
     Pine Mountain Club was originally pitched to Kern County as a "summer resort". (More on this later). Since no one would want to be here in the winter (!!), no provision was made for snow plowing. (If the county road - Mil Potrero- was snowed over, close it). The businesses in the Village (Commercial Center, then) would be seasonal, so no need to plow the roads there, either. Once it became obvious that access to all of PMC would be desirable year-round, some arrangements had to be made. The POA security vehicles and a couple of maintenance trucks and the pickup truck for the Stables were fitted with snow-plows, and did a reasonably good job of clearing most of the streets (keep in mind, there were a LOT of streets with NO homes). But what about the lanes and parking lots in the Village? The Commercial Association had no vehicles (and no employees, and nowhere to store a snowplow). The developer group, who also effectively ran PMC-POA, decided that charging each lot-owner in the Center a fee equal to the POA assessment ($50), would cover the cost of snow-plowing, and minor street maintenance (patching pot-holes, etc.) This was billed annually, and was called an assessment, but nothing was ever recorded to make it legal. It was a "working agreement".  At that time, the amounts were nominal, and no one really worried about unintended consequences.
More soon!
     

Friday, October 19, 2012

A Start

     I get many questions (since we've lived in PMC almost 40 years), about WHY things are the way they are, and "who did what, when." So I've been persuaded to share some of the "history" of Pine Mountain Club. 
    If it's real historical fact you seek, this isn't the place. The history of these mountains and canyons, and the early inhabitants, has been well documented already, by much better writers and story-tellers than I. Bonnie Ketterl Kane has written volumes (literally) on this area. The Ridgeroute Communities Historical Society & Museum www.rrchs.org  is a great source for her well-researched works. Author Peter Gray has also published a lot about the history and geography of this corner of California.
     No, what this blog is about is memories, recollections, and stories. Some may be pure fiction, but if it's still a good story, why not include it?
     I don't intend to have an outline, or any particular plan to this blog. It will just wander where it leads. I've made a few notes for future reference, but we'll just follow the path, wherever, whenever.
     Ultimately, any story about a community comes down to people, and their lives, and personalities. There's a lot of great stories here, and some sad ones, touching ones, and some bad ones. Your questions, comments, and memories/recollections are most welcome. That said, any general negativity, or attacks on any individual, living or dead, will be removed. If you want to be negative, use one of the forums, please.